The brand new CLS2Sim 5.3 and the PMDG 737 for MSFS

[webmaximus]

Found an old thread about the PMDG 737 in MSFS where I started posting this but afterwards figured it might be better to start a new and fresh thread now that we finally have full support for the PMDG 737 in MSFS. With a Brunner yoke that will move in tandem with the yoke in the PMDG when the AP is engaged.

Couldn’t be more happy about this but I do have one issue directly after playing around with CLS2Sim 5.3 since yesterday night. I struggle to find the settings to make the trim and AP disconnect work correctly.

The issue I’ve been seeing is how disconnecting the AP inside the PMDG 737 in MSFS will mostly result in they Brunner yoke being out of trim. Making the aircraft pitch up or down, mostly up so far during my testing. Also, after having had the AP engaged and then disconnecting, the standard pitch trim down command in MSFS doesn’t seem to work any more. This seems to be a bit of an intermittent issue. Where I’m sometimes able to manually trim down a bit but then it suddenly stops. Not responding to my button presses anymore. I’ve noticed this after landing and vacating the runway for instance when trying to reset the stab trim to 4 units. Where I can get it to maybe like 5 units or so but then it stops in the way described.

In CLS2Sim, I’m not using hardware trim. Since that would mean I wouldn’t be able to set the stab trim value in the PMDG 737. Since I need the trim buttons on the yoke to be in USB button mode. In order to be able to map them to the elevator pitch up/down commands in MSFS. Which in turns allows me to set the stab trim value in the PMDG 737.

Very much looking forward to hear if you guys have been more successful finding the right way to make this new version of CLS2Sim work with the PMDG 737!

[jovabra]

Hi Richard,
It is grandiose that with some consultation between PMDG and BRUNNER the joke is functioning again as in the very beginning. Chapeau
I have no problem at all with the trim function. During climb/descent (in VNAV) I disconnected the AP but observed no abnormal behavior. So no pitch up or down. Everything functioned as you expect. You can always use my profile to test if it is in the CLS2sim software or if it is present somewhere else. Of everything the latest software versions are installed and for many other function I use Axis And Oh’s software interface by Lorby.
Regards

[webmaximus]

Finally got it working after writing this post and messing around with all the different settings in CLS2Sim.

Thanks anywat.

[chris737]

Hello webmaximus,

Because I have the same problem with my yoke and the PMDG B737 I would like to know the steps you took to fixed that problem.

Thx in advance.

[webmaximus]

Hello Chris,

What exact problem are you referring to?

Over here, things are working pretty OK right now I would say. Still room for improvements though. Which Diego at Brunner is well aware of. Where he mentioned he was hoping being able to invest some more time into this early this year.

The primary thing I did over here to make things work at this point was to assign elevator/pitch trim up/down inside CLS2Sim rather than having these bound in MSFS. The issue still remaining though is how pressing the pitch trim up/down will not move the stabilizer but rather the elevator. Which of course isn’t how it works IRL looking at a 73.

However, for me it’s working pretty OK despite this now when I disconnect the AP. The aircraft doesn’t pitch violently either up or down. I do however usually have to pitch down some to avoid having to constantly apply forward pressure on the yoke.

Another thing that would also be very nice is having a difference in force required depending on if the aircraft has HYD pressure or not. This was working really nice in the Zibo mod in X-Plane and hopefully Diego will be able to make it work also in the PMDG 737 in MSFS.

Not sure if this helps?

[chris737]

Hello webmaximus,

I was exactly referring to the issue with the AP disconnect which makes the aircraft violently pitch up in my case. When disconnecting the AP I can see in lower ECAM system page that the stabilizer is always in a pitch up attitude. This weekend I will try your steps to fix the problem.

Thanx for the help.

Chris

[chris737]

Hello webmaximus,

well it took a while to test your suggestions but unfortunately they didn’t fix my problem. Neither the pitch trim works correctly nor the AP disconnect does. The aircraft is still pitching violently up when I disconnect the AP.
Any ideas?

Greetings and thanks.
Chris

[webmaximus]

Hey there Cris,

Sorry to hear that. Using my settings and doing the things described earlier gives me a fairly good experience in the PMDG 737 in MSFS.

Maybe file a support ticket if you didn’t already? Maybe Diego or someone else at Brunner might have some ideas.

I hope you get it sorted one way or the other!

[twitchyrudder]

Transferred from old thread

Oh wow, think I missed the memo. Saw that a third party aircraft interface was being used today and decided to check this thread.

I’m currently in the cruise and AP seems to work, albeit it’s a bit slow. I sonder if it’s just cos I’m at high altitude and the AP is using low rate.

The trim unfortunately I think is a conceptual problem of how MSFS does not natively support FFB. CLS2Sim (and XPForce) read the trim setting from the simvar and then apply neutral displacement as required, but in the sim, your control centre position is also shifted, so you end up with a double trim, one software trim as in sim, one hardware trim as on your physical Brunner device.

Hardware trim is a possible solution but then the range of motion between the physical flight control and software virtual flight control no longer match, as well as you’ve mentioned, not being able to use stab trim and possibly needing another keybind for it.

This issue would never be solved unless Asobo adds native support for FFB like XPlane does. For me, I always apply 1-2 seconds of nose down trim upon AP disco.

The problem is actually only very minor for the PMDG 737, in the Leonardo Maddog it’s really bad for take off trim since most CG configs would have your stab trim at 7.0 degrees or so but that makes your Brunner pull almost full backstick.

For your AP disconnecting randomly in flight, it’s because due to aforementioned limitations, PMDG wanted to simulate AP disconnecting by overriding it by force, so they simply coded that when the input device has a certain amount of deflection, it will disconnect, which is counterproductive on a AP following device as the AP commands a control deflection outside this range.
You may turn this setting off in the CDU -> PMDG Setup -> Options -> Simulation page 5/7 -> AP Disco on Ctrl Input -> Off

You may still simulate AP override in CLS2Sim. Curiously, the overpower disable option seems reversed though; AP only override will turn off FDs, AP+FD will override just the AP. There is a short delay however if using CMD B (CLS2Sim sends an AP on/off command to the sim which is interpreted as CMD A, so it turns CMD A on, short delay whilst CMB B hands over to CMD A, then CMD A realises it’s supposed to be off)

You can actually set trim binds within CLS2Sim and it is able to interface with MSFS (on most aircraft) without issue, saves you from having to do USB button mode.

Finally, for operating the stab trim, the 737 will interrupt trim if it detects yoke movement opposite to trim direction. Next time try to push the yoke forwards whilst trimming down, that should get you 4.0 units as you desired.

[chris737]

Hello TWITCHYRUDDER,

thanks for your reply. The weired thing is that the yoke has worked without problems after it was compatible with MSFS. The problem occured just six weeks ago.
I keep everything updated. All drivers, software and firmware are up to date. I can hardly remember but I believe the problem started with an update. To be exact it is somehow related with an update with which the yoke movement in AP mode was supported. In ohter words in the beginning as the yoke movement was not supported everything worked flawlessly.
So, blaming only Asobo can not be the whole truth.

Greeting,
Chris

[kaleemali]

Hi Chris,

Did you have any joy with the pitch up after a/p disconnect?
I also experience the aircraft wanting to pitch up after a/p disconnect and not being in a trimmed condition.

Thanks

[Giuseppe]

Morning all, this ” problem ” technically happens also in the real 737. Obviously is not that violent when disconnecting the autopilot, but the aircraft has been design to pich-up in case of A/P failure especially if using the A/P up to the MUH ( Minimum Use High ). When we disconnect the autopilot the A/C its always pitching up.

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