PMDG 737-700 for MSFS – what is your experience so far?

[webmaximus]

I guess I’m not the only one in here who recently bought PMDG’s 737-700.

Haven’t done any testing yet but just wanted to ask if there’s anyone else in here who already tried it out with the CLS-E yoke and would care to share how the experience has been so far?

In the past, I used the yoke with the Zibo mod in X-Plane and it worked really well. Thanks to Diego at Brunner and how I introduced him to Lubos (Zibo), we even managed to get the hydraulic pressure working in regards to the yoke. Where the yoke offered quite an amount of resistance if configured correctly in CLS2Sim when no HYD pressure was available. That was so cool!!

I did a quick scan in here before posting for any similar threads but the closest one I found was about PMDG’s NGXu where I read some alarming posts how that one at the time was not supported by Brunner. Where the yoke wouldn’t move with the AP etc. That makes me a bit worried if the same thing will now be true also in MSFS.

Guess time will tell but if that is the case, I really do hope we will see some serious attention from Brunner addressing these issues in the very near future. With the newly released 737 for MSFS being one of the most awaited aircraft for MSFS, it would be a real shame if those of us who invested in Brunner hardware would not be able to use it with this new aircraft in the amazing simulator platform we all have with MSFS.

[jovabra]

Hallo Richard,
The yoke wouldn’t move in combination with the PMDG 737-700 and MSFS2020. Only the ZIBO 737-800 and the 737-800 NGX are correct working with feedback.
For now it is an expensive XBOX game controller

Add info: Also the CFY motorized throttle doesn’t work
Regards
John

[webmaximus]

Many thanks for the info John. Even when it wasn’t the kind of info I was hoping for obviously…

As for the Brunner yoke, I assume you already tried all the various settings in CLS2Sim found on the Autopilot tab? Such as ‘Don’t set pos in AP mode’ and ‘Enhanced AP mode’.

I really hope @Diego will look into this and find a way to make the yoke work correctly. It would be a true shame if nothing is done to make the yoke work with one of the what I’m sure will be most popular airliners in the currently most popular simulator. I can’t even see that happening to be honest and I hope it’s just a matter of time.

As for the CFY TQ, I actually sold mine but have been thinking of getting myself a new one. And this time the V4. However, I was fully expecting the TQ to not work initially with the PMDG 737 in MSFS and I guess we can only hope Torsten will show us MSFS users some love eventually. Same thing for him, would be a real shame if his amazing products would end up not working in MSFS on a permanent basis. Did you try to reach out to him? I did a couple of times before the PMDG 737 for MSFS was released to ask for planned compatibility but never heard back from him…surprise surprise…

[twitchyrudder]

Unfortunately a lot of events for PMDG are handled exterior to the sim, so CLS2Sim is unable to tap into the usual simvars to gain information about what’s going on.

With this in mind, the AP does not follow, since it uses a custom PMDG autopilot. The hydraulic forces also are not applicable since they are a system handled outside of MSFS’s own events. Pretty much everything in regards to this aircraft does. In the future, there may be addition details on a possible SDK as with previous PMDG products, and currently it seems to share a lot of naming conventions as with the NGXu. I’m not sure how much of it is shared, but hopefully work can be started upon the basis of the NGXu’s SDK.

Currently, force trimming does work but the trim speed is dictated by the aircraft which results in the yoke’s physical trimming movement quite minute. I still enjoy the experience however, since the control forces of the 73 can still be replicated as opposed to a passive yoke. The product in MSFS is also quite spectacular in combination to the capabilities of the new simulator. A few navigation hiccups here and there, but that’s par for the course for the current state of MSFS.

[webmaximus]

Thanks for sharing this info and just for my understanding, are you saying we’re waiting for PMDG to release a SDK for their new 737 for MSFS?

[twitchyrudder]

That’s my understanding of the situation. Still awaiting SDK for MSFS version of the 737.

[jovabra]

It is not only a correctly working PMDG 737 SDK software package but the will of Brunner to make a correct implementation in the driver software. For the Prepar3dV5 and the PMDG 737 NGXu there is a correctly working SDK but Brunner does not want to make an adjustment for this. Only the “old PMDG 737 NGX is only version with feedback in combination with the AP.
Regards
John
Ps;
Long ago had an extensive mail discussion about this shortcoming.
In short, their answer to me was: how far and how much are you willing to pay for the resulting costs. Had no concrete answer about the possible costs. Then closed the discussion and switched to the ZIBO 737

[webmaximus]

I’m really sad to hear about that conversation you had John.

I understand there’s additional development cost but at the same time, leaving your customers who not bought but rather invested in Brunner products out in the cold. Where they are sitting with a product in the price range Brunner products are without being able to use it with all it’s functionality which to many/most of us were the reason we decided to do this investment in the first place…that is not good.

Part from this, as long as Brunner decides to keep selling products for the consumer market and the most popular simulators, to me it just doesn’t make sense to not support one of the most popular aircraft of all time. Also, most people even consider investing in a Brunner product would mostly be a “hardcore” simulation enthusiast. These in turn are most likely going to fly an aircraft such as the PMDG 737 NG. So again, not being willing to invest in making sure your products work with that aircraft seems very odd IMO if you want to continue do business.

I know I said it somewhere before (maybe even in this thread) but I really do hope Brunner reconsider this decision. Same thing goes for other flight sim hardware manufacturers such as CFY. Where many of us again invested money in the same range most “normal” people spend on buying a second car…

[webmaximus]

Just had it confirmed by Stefan at Brunner they have no plans supporting the PMDG 737 in MSFS.

So there we go…

[avantime]

Well that’s really unfortunate for a $1,000+ piece of hardware….. 🤦‍♂️

[webmaximus]

A true shame indeed to say the least.

However, someone in the linked thread below over in the PMDG forums claims he managed to make his Brunner yoke work correctly with the PMDG 737 in MSFS. Still haven’t had time to play around with this anymore myself but a friend of mine did and said he still hasn’t been able to make it work despite having tried every single combination of options in CLS2Sim.

So, with that said, I’m not sure if there’s a misunderstanding somewhere when this guy over in the PMDG forums claims he has it working. Even more so when Stefan at Brunner told me they have no plans supporting it. Why would he give me that answers if their products are already working as they should…?

Anyway, here’s the link I’m referring to:

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-737-for-msfs/187078-compatibility-with-the-brunner-force-feedback-yoke

[webmaximus]

Someone pointed out this about the SDK for the MSFS version of the PMDG 737.

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/220400-09oct22-some-pending-updates-on-various-pmdg-related-topics?p=220497#post220497

So, looks like it will be released within the next few days if it hasn’t been released already.

Let’s keep our fingers crossed this might change the decision of Brunner to not support the PMDG 737 in MSFS.

[twitchyrudder]

SDK released!! Definitely crossing fingers and hope for future support.

[webmaximus]

So, the day is here when our prayers have been heard and we have a Brunner yoke that will move with the AP connected in the PMDG 737!

Couldn’t be more happy about this but I do have one issue directly after playing around with CLS2Sim 5.3 since yesterday night. I struggle to find the settings to make the trim and AP disconnect work correctly.

The issue I’ve been seeing is how disconnecting the AP inside the PMDG 737 in MSFS will mostly result in they Brunner yoke being out of trim. Making the aircraft pitch up or down, mostly up so far during my testing. Also, after having had the AP engaged and then disconnecting, the standard pitch trim down command in MSFS doesn’t seem to work any more. This seems to be a bit of an intermittent issue. Where I’m sometimes able to manually trim down a bit but then it suddenly stops. Not responding to my button presses anymore. I’ve noticed this after landing and vacating the runway for instance when trying to reset the stab trim to 4 units. Where I can get it to maybe like 5 units or so but then it stops in the way described.

In CLS2Sim, I’m not using hardware trim. Since that would mean I wouldn’t be able to set the stab trim value in the PMDG 737. Since I need the trim buttons on the yoke to be in USB button mode. In order to be able to map them to the elevator pitch up/down commands in MSFS. Which in turns allows me to set the stab trim value in the PMDG 737.

Very much looking forward to hear if you guys have been more successful finding the right way to make this new version of CLS2Sim work with the PMDG 737!

[twitchyrudder]

Oh wow, think I missed the memo. Saw that a third party aircraft interface was being used today and decided to check this thread.

I’m currently in the cruise and AP seems to work, albeit it’s a bit slow. I sonder if it’s just cos I’m at high altitude and the AP is using low rate.

The trim unfortunately I think is a conceptual problem of how MSFS does not natively support FFB. CLS2Sim (and XPForce) read the trim setting from the simvar and then apply neutral displacement as required, but in the sim, your control centre position is also shifted, so you end up with a double trim, one software trim as in sim, one hardware trim as on your physical Brunner device.

Hardware trim is a possible solution but then the range of motion between the physical flight control and software virtual flight control no longer match, as well as you’ve mentioned, not being able to use stab trim and possibly needing another keybind for it.

This issue would never be solved unless Asobo adds native support for FFB like XPlane does. For me, I always apply 1-2 seconds of nose down trim upon AP disco.

The problem is actually only very minor for the PMDG 737, in the Leonardo Maddog it’s really bad for take off trim since most CG configs would have your stab trim at 7.0 degrees or so but that makes your Brunner pull almost full backstick.

For your AP disconnecting randomly in flight, it’s because due to aforementioned limitations, PMDG wanted to simulate AP disconnecting by overriding it by force, so they simply coded that when the input device has a certain amount of deflection, it will disconnect, which is counterproductive on a AP following device as the AP commands a control deflection outside this range.
You may turn this setting off in the CDU -> PMDG Setup -> Options -> Simulation page 5/7 -> AP Disco on Ctrl Input -> Off

You may still simulate AP override in CLS2Sim. Curiously, the overpower disable option seems reversed though; AP only override will turn off FDs, AP+FD will override just the AP. There is a short delay however if using CMD B (CLS2Sim sends an AP on/off command to the sim which is interpreted as CMD A, so it turns CMD A on, short delay whilst CMB B hands over to CMD A, then CMD A realises it’s supposed to be off)

You can actually set trim binds within CLS2Sim and it is able to interface with MSFS (on most aircraft) without issue, saves you from having to do USB button mode.

Finally, for operating the stab trim, the 737 will interrupt trim if it detects yoke movement opposite to trim direction. Next time try to push the yoke forwards whilst trimming down, that should get you 4.0 units as you desired.

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