Realistic trimming in P3DV4 and XP11

[vvince]

Hello,

I do not own a yoke but am considering either the CLS E or the CLS NG.
One of the functionality I am most interested in is the realistic trimming.
I found some infos here https://cls2sim.brunner-innovation.swiss/TrimFunctionality.htm but still could not completely figure out how trim is working with this yoke and what limitations to expect…
So here are a few questions for the owners of the yoke.

The intended plan is to fly the Cesna 172 from A2A in P3DV4 and the XP11 Cesna 172 with the REP mod (later on probably other GA too) and pitch trim using an external trim wheel, not the rockers on the yoke.
As far as I could understand everything should be working fine with XP11 after some configuration work, and realsitic trimming can be expected
What about P3DV4? can realistic trimming be achieved?

What are there limitations to be expected in both sims with respect to the real plane?

I read that there is hardware or software trim. Can both modes work with an external trim wheel, or does the hardware trim requires trimming with the rockers of the yoke? Which mode works better?

I also read that there are some issues regarding the autopilot, can they be solved with a proper configuration or are they serious limitations?

Thanks a lot for any infos,

cheers
Vvince

[ady7970]

X-Plane trim works perfectly with the REP C172. I’ve had all manner of bother with the A2A C172 in P3D….trim doens’t work properly at all. It’s a P3D limitation rather than Brunner’s fault (at least that’s my understanding).

[vvince]

Thanks for your reply ady, that’s very valuable information. So I suppose that trim won’t be working in a realistic way with any P3D GA plane… That’s a pity.

[medtner]

I’m having no problems with the A2A Cessna 172 using the Saitek trim wheel. It works just like the rocker switch at the yoke.

Autopilot is an issue if you let it do lots of trimming for you and when disengaging you will get a sudden movement from the trim wheel being not in synch with the sim. This can be resolved by either giving a few swipes of trim in the correct direction before disengaging the AP or by being prepared to catch the movement with the yoke and then correcting with the trim. The transition is not realistic, of course, but if you plan to to much flying on AP with such hardware as the Brunner yoke I’m thinking the money is better spent on a large screen where you can see the yoke in the sim. The point with a FF-yoke is the fantastic response and the texture/feel of the different speeds. Also the surgical precision the Brunner allows is wasted when on autopilot. Handflying is what it’s all about. I’ve used the yoke since December and flown the A2A C-172 99.99% of the time (only testing other planes to see that they also work). I handfly basically all the time, and it’s so much fun.

And again, external trim wheel works perfectly for me. No hassle either – works out of the box with the “hardware trim” option checked in CLS2SIM.

Hope you join the exclusive ranks of Brunner-simpilots! 🙂

[vvince]

Thanks for your reply Medtner, a lot of usefull information!
I am not planning to extensively use autopilot, as you says, it would be a pity to put the hands off the yoke! Only when setting up the GPS or such.
Your experience with trimming in P3D is reassuring I have to say. Just to make sure, since it differs from the one of Ady, that we mean the same thing with realistic trimming : say you are level by holding the yoke in a certain position, rotating the trim wheel accordingly decreases the force needed to hold the position of the yoke, until no force is needed anymore. At this point the yoke remains in the same position whithout holding (the plane is trimmed).
Is it what you can achieve with the trim wheel in “hardware trim” mode?

Thanks,

vvince

[medtner]

I’m using the AP when I sometimes have to get some food during longer flights. Even complex IFR-flying in the system (PilotEdge) I do by hand. It’s extremely rewarding, and one only gets good at handflying by doing handflying. 🙂

Let’s say I’m climbing out after takeoff. I handfly without trimming until I have reached an altitude where I deem it safe to start “cleaning up” the plane – transitioning from takeoff to climb/cruise-climb. At that point the aircraft will have reached a higher speed, and I will use quite a bit of force to keep it at my desired climb rate. If I start trimming the airplane the yoke will stay in place, but I will need less and less force. In practice one is moving the “neutral position” with the trim wheel, and you can see it when using the trim wheel when the CLS2SIM program is activated and the yoke is synched (before starting the sim). Moving the wheel will make the yoke move.

So if I level out without trimming the plane from TO-position it will require lots of forward pressure on the yoke to keep it from climbing. Trimming will remove that force gradually. Feels fantastic, and is exactly the point with such a device as the Brunner Yoke. Using a standard spring/rubber band yoke is for me now laughably unrealistic.

As an aside – the amount of precision in the Brunner Yoke was a surprising element for me. The tiniest movement has a corresponding response in the sim – you feel like you have endless precision available. The smallest inputs are registered smoothly, and one of the greatest places is during the transition from final decent and flare. The feeling of the controls becoming less responsive – lighter – and the control one gets over this during the transition is second to none. My landings improved within minutes of starting to fly with the Brunner. The plane speaks to you, and you can respond with the correct input, without being pestered with sticky controls or center detents, or uniform resistance from the spring/rubber band.

I only wish I was very rich so that I could buy a Brunner-set for all true flight-sim geeks. Not all need to have the Rolls Royce of controls, but the ones that get it will forget they paid the price. It’s easily on my lifetime top 3 purchases.

Rant over 😉

Yours,

Erik

[Author]

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