Xplane Baron now has a serious oscillating swing on take-off

[derryuk]

Since installing my new CLSE-NG yoke and CLS2SIM software in the last few days the standard Xplane Baron now has a tendency to start oscillating during take-off. It can be serious enough to be uncontrollable with the rudder, occasionally I end up on the grass at the side of the runway.

A fellow Brunner user (yoke and pedals) has reported the same problem on the X-plane.org hardware forum. The user thought he might have a problem with his pedals but as I use CH products rudder pedals it would seem to be an issue with the CLS2SIM software.

This only happens on the ground, once in the air everything is back to normal.

Any thoughts?

Derry.
CLS2SIM 4.20.1
X-Plane 11.34r1
Win 10 Pro 1809

[captainmd]

Hello derryuk. I’m another user on the X Plane forum “FO Massimo” and I have reported the same problem with the Baron 58. After multiple CLS2SIM tweaks, I could not get a reasonable centerline takeoff going. Even with 6 kts. direct headwind on take off, I’m going left and right on the centerline. No way with 6 kts direct headwind.

I finally had to go into the Baron 58 .acf file and adjust a few settings on the landing gear wheels (per a Carenado developers recommendation) and I made this issue go away. It was my last resort as I was not able to ascertain guidance elsewhere.

Send me PM if you’re interested in this last resort mod.

Massimo

[Diego Bürgin]

Hi Folks

I’ve made a few tests just now and don’t have the described behavior.
Also, rudder behavior has not changed for a while now.

The only thing I can think of is this:

When steering pitch down on the runway during takeoff, rudder will react excessively to input.
This can be reproduced with an USB joystick also, it’s an X-Plane issue. Open the profile manager and observe pitch during a take off,
so that it doesn’t leave center position. Rudder behavior should be much better.

If you still have the problem, Go to the CLS2Sim installation folder, create a zip file of your Settings folder and upload it here.

Regards
Diego

[derryuk]

Thank you for the prompt replies. Massimo, are you saying this is an Xplane issue?

Now I have always found the Xplane Baron sensitive to rudder input so I always moderate this by making the rudder input less effective by flattening it’s response curve in Xplane settings. This is just to make it easier for me, I can take-off happily in both conditions.

The current swing problem is in a completely different category.

To see if the swing is caused by excessive rudder input I did three take-offs with the view set to the rear using shift+4. The first TO was OK <s>, 2 and 3 had the swing. Now from the rear the oscillation seems to happen with very little rudder deflection. Of course the tendency is once it has started to increase rudder movement to try to control it.

Now normally I would not have associated this swing with CLS2SIM until I read that another Brunner user was having swing issues with his Brunner pedals. My serios swing issues only started after I had installed and used CLS2SIM.

Initially I’ll refit my CH yoke and see if it persists. I’ll report back.

Derry.

[captainmd]

Hi All,

I should probably have clarified. I’m using the Carenado Baron 58 with the BRUNNER BARON 58 PROFILE by Stefan. although, I do have the same problem with the X Plane Baron. What I can say for sure is that this swing problem with my Carenado Baron 58 started when I replaced my old Saitek yoke with the CLS E. What Diego says above makes perfect sense but when I try to correct this swing with my rudder pedals, the swaying back and forth amplifies to the point where I lose control of my aircraft.

Derryuk, I think X Plane has an issue where the ground handling characteristics are at the edge of keeping the aircraft on a stable path during takeoff and landing. Meaning, if we use simple non-noisy stock yokes and rudder pedals, we should do fine. But not that we introduce the CLS E which is fantastic, I have a hunch that the nature of the CLS2SIM software injecting forces disturbs the stability of the X Plane ground handling to aircraft relationship. That is why I had to modify the actual aircraft file in plane maker. I modified the wheel coefficient and made the nose gear radius just a bit wider to help with stability. After this, I was able to take off with direct runway winds of 16 kts gusting 23 with minor back and forth veering which I think is correct based on real world Baron videos on Youtube.

[derryuk]

Of course when I came to do it I realised I have no need to change my yoke all I need do is not start CLS2SIM.

I have now done 20 TO with and without CLS2SIM. I also had the thought that as I was using real world weather turbulence may be an issue so I set the weather in Xplane to manual with a 90 deg to the runway crosswind at 11 knts. I also TO in both directions.

At the moment inertia seems to be the issue, inertia seems to be increased with CLS2SIM running. Without CLS2SIM running I can TO satisfactorily, with it running I start to have swing issues though I am now becoming more proficient in controlling the swing. Without CLS2SIM I to in a reasonably straight line, with it I zig-zag at best.

During these tests I noticed another thing. I said I turned off turbulence in Xplane weather but with CLS2SIM running I can feel turbulence in my yoke. Now when I enabled turbulence in CLS2SIM I assumed it would get its data from Xplane, but I have that turned off so it must generate it’s own.

In summary running CLS2SIM we have seemingly increased inertia with random(?) turbulence from any direction(?).

I have attached my settings file.

Derry.

Attachments:

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[sbrunner]

Hi Derry
Make sure that you have no axis mapped in X-Plane from the Yoke and Rudder. Check the USB Mapping in X-Plane.
The mapping is done automatically in CLS2Sim.
Regards
Stefan Brunner

[derryuk]

Stephan I am using CH rudder pedals so they are mapped separately. True when I ran Xplane without CLS2SIM I had to map my NG yoke in Xplane settings so it was unmapped as you ask.

Derry.

[derryuk]

Diego, can I ask you to try a take-off with the following parameters and let us know the results please.

Xplane 11.34
Xplane Baron
ground level crosswind at 90 deg to the runway at a speed of 11 or 12 knts
no turbulence in Xplane or CLS2SIM

The reason I ask is that I can now control the Baron crosswind oscillations by making adjustments in Planemaker but as soon as I use CLS2SIM software the oscillations are back and all the changes I have tried in Planemaker to control this have no effect.

In the standard Xplane I noted that when I reduced the Planemaker “nosewheel steering full deflection time” my rudder corrections became more effective. I see it as thus, I put in rudder movement to control the swing then the nosewheel steering catches up and adds more. So I back off and the nosewheel steering catches up and adds more. The effect is to start oscillations.

In summary, although I can make adjustments in Planemaker to control this in standard Xplane, I cannot when running CLS2SIM. To my mind this implies that CLS2SIM is introducing its own system delays which I cannot compensate for.

At the moment unless in still air my Brunner software is unfit for purpose.

I look forward to your feedback.

Derry.

[derryuk]

Diego I should have added to my list above the CLS-E NG yoke, you will then emulate my system.

Derry.

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