Yoke won't move when autopilot is engaged in the Zibo mod in XP11

[webmaximus]

In the latest versions of the very popular Zibo 737-800X mod for X-Plane my Brunner yoke won’t move with the autopilot anymore.

I told Zibo about it and he said he was going to try fix it but haven’t been able to so far. I think the problem is due to the fact Zibo implemented his own code for the autopilot to work around some issue with the default autopilot in X-Plane (v11.26). He mentioned something about the Brunner yoke being linked to other dataref…not really sure what that means.

Is there anything you guys could tell me how the CLS-E yoke communicates with XP via your plugin that would help Zibo addressing this issue where the CLS-E no longer moves with the A/P in the Zibo mod?

I really hope there’s some way to fix this. Either by Zibo or by you. These days I do all my flying in the Zibo mod. It’s an amazing model to say the least. Even more so considering it’s free and used by a number of real world 737 pilots. One of the most well-known is a guy who goes under the nickname flightdeck2sim who has a superb YouTube channel where he teaches how to fly the Zibo mod like it would be the real aircraft. Truly a brilliant channel for anyone interested in the 737 NG and how to operate it like IRL!

Many thanks in advance for any input or tips how to fix this issue.

[webmaximus]

I was told by Zibo you guys have been in contact regarding this issue which is great! Looking forward to what will come out of it.

One more thing I would like to add while you’re looking into this is how the nose of the Zibo mod has a tendency to drop when you disconnect the AP on short final. I’m guessing it has to do with how the stab trim value doesn’t match perfectly between the CLS-E yoke and the virtual yoke in the Zibo mod.

You can also see during flight by opening up the flight control system display in the Zibo mod how the pitch axis never “settles” when the AP is engaged in the Zibo mod and you have the pitch axis enabled under Autopilot in the CLS2Sim software. You will see how the pitch very rapidly moves up and down in a rather erratic way. In my experience, this is the case both with the ‘Don’t move with the AP’ option in CLS2Sim checked/unchecked.

Only way I’ve found at this time to avoid both these issues is by simply disabling the pitch axis under Autopilot settings in CLS2Sim. Although it will fix these issues, I don’t see it as a solution since it defeats one of the main features of the Brunner yoke and one of the reasons I bought it in the first place…how it’s able to move with the AP just like in the real aircraft.

Looking forward to hear back from you.

[dusfor63]

Hello Brunner Team,

after realizing the mentioned behaviours in the Zibomod after updating to newer versions past V3.31J I asked Webmaximus who informed me that you wanted to get in with Zibo and his team.

I want to kindly ask you if there are some news regarding this as we CLS-E users (it’s not just Webmaximus and me) would really like to use the awsome device with the new features of the mod again.

Thank you for having a look.

Best regards
Güner Tas

[webmaximus]

Happy to report I got a message from Diego at Brunner the other day who told me he has been swamped lately but also told me he still has this on his to-do list and was hoping to get some time to look into it within the next 3-4 weeks.

So we just need to hang in there until then 🙂

Now with X-Plane 11.30 released I’m not sure if it would be a smart move to upgrade since I’m not sure how well Zibo 3.31j will work with 11.30. Maybe I’ll give it a go after making a complete backup of my system so it’s easy to go back should that be required. Or otherwise I’ll just hold off upgrading both X-Plane as well as the Zibo mod until Diego found some time to work on this with Zibo (or Lubos which is his actual name).

[cap10jaf]

I’m glad to know I’m not alone experiencing this problem! I will be waiting to hear what Diego and Brunner can do to resolve this. I have this amazing yoke, and have made several payware-like contributions to Zibo, but can no longer fly the plane on auto-pilot.

[webmaximus]

I’m sure they will sort it out. We just need to give it some time.

While waiting, we can either use the latest version of the Zibo mod that still works with the Brunner yoke. Or…use a later model and still use the autopilot…only that it won’t be coupled with the Brunner yoke.

This of course is a very bad thing when you made the investment in a Brunner yoke. But it’s not like need to stop flying until it has been addressed.

At least, this is how I see it.

[dusfor63]

I will refrain from updating to 11.30, although I was told it has some interesting improvments and stay with the “vintage” :-))))) version.

The worst thing after 3.31J is that if you activate the autopilot it constantly oscilates up and down as if the yoke is either running behind or is disturbing the autopilot. depending on the setting in the controls config in the mod, if you activate the AP, it instantly jumps to CWS that makes obvious that the yoke is interfering the logic instead of following it. Quiet sure that if that is fixed the other problem will go away as well, because I think the yoke / software is not synchronizing the trim together and has different opinions 🙂 what the right position of the yoke should be. On disconnect AP that forces us to pull / push a lot depending on the aircrafts attitude.
Sorry, a bit lengthy text, but perhaps helps Diego.
Güner

[cap10jaf]

Thank you Güner,

That is exactly what I’m experiencing too.

[webmaximus]

For the time being, I worked around the issue you describe by disabling the autopilot for the pitch axis in the CLS2Sim software.

Looking forward to when Diego will find some time to work with Zibo to make the Brunner yoke perform perfectly with the latest version of the Zibo mod. Two masterminds working together, I’m sure the result will be great 🙂

[cap10jaf]

Thank you webmaximus,

I’m going to try this “work-around” now.

Looking forward to the proper solution though.

Greg D.

[gian19]

Hi All,
today, Zibo released fix 3.33(e) which apparently supports Brunner hardware. In the EFB, as matter of facts, there is an option under hardware settings to enable Brunner yoke. I tried the new release as instructed but with no luck. Zibo beavhoiur hasn’t changed for me. After autopilot is engaged, it banks left and right trying to maintaining course and pitches ups and down trying to staying on VNAV path to finally crashing.
Now another thing I noticed is that the new fix suggests the use of “Brunner CLS software 4.19.0+”. The version I have is 4.14 and I haven’t find any newer version on Brunner portal. Moreover, when I click on check for update, within CLS main window, I get a message saying that my software is up-to-date.
Anybody else is having luck?

Thanks,
Gianfranco

[webmaximus]

I’ve just built a new rig for X-Plane and have yet to install all software but I’m truly looking forward trying the Brunner support for the new Zibo mod out myself.

As for version of CLS2Sim, I’m positive you’ll need the very latest version in order for this to work. Might even be that you need a beta version not officially released yet.

That would explain why you didn’t find it by checking for updates.

[Diego Bürgin]

Diego from development here.

Ok, so as Zibo has released his beta, here is ours:

IMPORTANT NOTES FIRST!

– Disclaimer: BETA! This may eat your cat and burn down your house!

– You have to reinstall the X-Plane plugin, as we had to make changes in the behavior.

– Before you install this, make a backup of your settings folder in the CLS2Sim installation directory.

– FEEDBACK! Tell me if works! If not, tell me what it doesn’t do that it should, and what it does that it shouldn’t.

So you guys have been warned 😉

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IF5OA_lXb9FexD5FDOGicDPeQKR9DhYg

Have fun!

[webmaximus]

Super thanks Diego for investing time into supporting this immensely popular aircraft.

As mentioned above, it might be a couple of days before I get a chance to try it out.

Will report my findings back.

[Diego Bürgin]

Thank you.

I need to clarify something here for future endeavors regarding third-party aircraft.
– We take suggestions for API improvements, that allow other developers to better implement support for our hardware. (What happened here)
– We do not support third-party aircraft ourselves. (The list would grow infinitely in short order)

So the thanks really has to go to Lubos, the Zibo mod developer, because he invested time to make his product work with ours.

What happened:
Webmaximus did talk and network on both sides and brought a suggestion from Lubos to me. Thanks Webmaximus for taking the time.
Lubos from Zibo mod suggested an addition to the way the AP can be controlled externally via X-Plane Datarefs.
As it is not an aircraft specific change, but can be used by any X-Plane model developer developing his own plugins for X-Plane,
we have implemented that change for him and any future model builder wishing to make use of the Brunner AP feature.

The Technical stuff:
Applies to CLS2Sim 4.19.0 and later.
Applies to X-Plane plugin 6.3.2 and later.
Applies to any Brunner Joystick, Yoke or Pedal.

The changes allow controlling the Brunner AP on/off state and AP position for Pitch, Roll and Yaw axes by using X-Plane Datarefs.

beh/autopilot_external_control = 0 (Default)
Brunner AP is controlled by CLS2Sim which reads the normal X-Plane AP data.

beh/autopilot_external_control = 1
Deactivate Brunner AP, regardless of X-Plane AP state.

beh/autopilot_external_control = 2
Activate Brunner AP for Pitch & Roll.
Write the following Datarefs to set position:
sim/cockpit2/controls/aileron_trim
sim/cockpit2/controls/elevator_trim

beh/autopilot_external_control = 3
Activate Brunner AP for Pitch & Roll & Yaw.
Write the following Datarefs to set position:
sim/cockpit2/controls/elevator_trim
sim/cockpit2/controls/aileron_trim
sim/cockpit2/controls/rudder_trim

beh/autopilot_external_control = 4
Activate Brunner AP for Pitch & Roll.
Write the following Datarefs to set position:
sim/joystick/yoke_pitch_ratio
sim/joystick/yoke_roll_ratio

beh/autopilot_external_control = 5
Activate Brunner AP for Pitch & Roll & Yaw.
Write the following Datarefs to set position:
sim/joystick/yoke_pitch_ratio
sim/joystick/yoke_roll_ratio
sim/joystick/yoke_heading_ratio

Regards
Diego

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